Apparently Tokyo hates women and Paris is racist

Comments

You talk about Paris, Texas, right ? ;)

i'm sad that the Tokyo guide said all of that! I've been to TK -- with 2 girlfriends, no less -- and we had NO trouble. seriously. we rode the crowded subways, we went out at night, we walked around the city ... all without ANY trouble whatsoever. yes, i'm sure that japanese men aren't very nice to japanese women (culturally, they *are* pigs), but we didn't have any trouble as visitors. while native men might not respect women of their own country, they are equally afraid of foreigners, and you may find that you have extra space around you on the train. (i did!)

you'll have an awesome time!

oh, and P.S. - one of my girlfriends from that trip accepted a job transfer to TK about 3 months after we had visited, and in the 2 years that she lived there, she had NO problems with local men. none. that's good news!

A friend of mine lived in Tokyo for 4 years teaching and I don't think she had to deal with one groping incident/any incident involving men being threatening in any way. Am v. jealous of your trip!!

I think guide books post certain things to warn you that these things might happen so you are prepared. I've read what guidebooks have to say about my country (Canada) and my city (Vancouver) and its shocks me because some of it is just so waaay out there. I think all traveler's should be prepared and that as along as they pay attention and are respectful of local customs and etiquette, they should be ok. Its the dumb-ass traverelers, who expect the locals to conform to them, that end up having bad experiences. You can, quite honestly, have a bad experience anywhere......just as you can have a good experience anywhere.

I have heard bad things about Tokyo but also MANY good things. I was there when I was 12 and had a great time....but that was a long time ago and I was considered a child so not a lot to report there (although as a blonde, I was revered....LOL!). I do remember my dad leaving his camera in a taxi in Tokyo and he got it back...but that was a long time ago so no clue what its like now.

I haven't been to Paris but its on my list and I have done some reading. Parisians have a rep for being somewhat arrogant but I don't think its everyone. They don't like touristy people.....so if you want to have fun in Paris, don't act too touristy...whatever that means! LOL!

Have fun...we are all jealous! :p

[ciò è buono]
i've never been to any of those places either, but have to agree with Roboco's comment that it is probably more of a culture thing in terms of the way japanese men treat japanese women. as a foreigner to their county, i'm pretty sure they'll treat you much differently. a few of my friends have visited both Japan and France and had only good things to say about both places. one friend in particular said that he noticed japanese people are polite and will try to help, but are ashamed if they cannot speak english, while the french who can speak english have pretended not to be able to understand just to get out of helping someone! like i said i've never been to either place, but i'm guessing being respectful to another culture is the ticket to a good trip!
I’m more a Lonely Planet fan. As to racism in Paris, I visit there regularly and have never encountered it. Maybe because I am too obviously a tourist? But I would have thought I looked local enough after all these years and people keep asking me for directions (blimmin’ tourists!). The closest thing I witnessed was two white cops harassing a black Frenchman; whether it was racially motivated I do not know.
As to arrogant French people, that is a total myth. I have encountered some, but no more as I would encounter in any other country. Some may mistake the behaviour of some waiters as arrogance till you realize it is part of the game, but you only really see this in totally traditional places.
In London, when I give up my seat on the Tube, women look at me as though I have fallen out of a dog’s bottom, or that it must be some Jeremy Beadle (RIP) gag. But then, I also talk on the Tube just to scare the locals. (I’m British. I’m allowed to.)
I have not been to Tokyo, only to Osaka, and being a man I cannot really comment on the groping. The Japanese men do have a reputation, and I know in Taiwan a lot of massage parlours rely on Japanese trade. JuSaMee is right in any case: mutual respect is the name of the game!
[this is good]
Thank you all for your comments!

I figured that these guides are just supposed to sort of warn you about the worst case scenario...but especially with what they wrote in the Tokyo book, it's a bit much and enough to make someone a bit paranoid.

I really appreciate all the wonderful things you've had to say about Paris and especially Tokyo. Everyone I've spoken to says how much they love Tokyo and how great of a time they've had there, so I'm not too worried. I think I'm more worried about the toilets, actually. Are they really just holes in the ground, or are there more western toilets than everyone is actually telling me??


I see what they mean about chauvinism in France. Like many European countries, the native men can just be a bit overtly flirty and some people find that insulting. I just thought it was charmingly French. I mean, we're talking about a country where it is socially acceptable for a man to "keep" a mistress. Feminism just isn't huge in France, though on a socio-economic level women do well. Sexual objectification is par for the course. Look at any French ad.
The "women only" train cars have a bit of different history than just "women have low status" thing.

In Japan, especially around Tokyo there goes a well-known "commuter hell" packed trains every morning. It's disgusting but not avoidable, for women (or anyone actually) to need to have a full body contact with anyone in your next, in that packed environment.

At the same time, if you are a man, if you're packed in that train and keep your hand down but want to move it up to, say, wipe sweat from your forhead, there is a great risk of you being misunderstood as a groper, arrested, jailed and need to fight over court for years. There's even a movie about it, based on the real story.

So that system is quite annoying for me, because women-only cars are usually less packed, and as you say, it's the sign to accept the fact there are gropers in other cars, but it's at least functional, to reduce the risk of being misunderstood.

The only way to avoid this is not to ride a train around 9am or 6pm :)
Thank you for all that! Yeah, I've heard that the trains are not fun. I'm actually against the idea of women only carriages, and one politician over here in the UK has actually tried to propose the same idea on the London Underground. In my opinion, it's just dodging the original problem of overcrowding and men who can't control themselves.

Maybe you could just put on a wig and wear a pink cardigan and hop on the women's only carriage in the morning, and then toss them in your backpack on the way to work, lol. :)
[this is good]
The Rough guide seemed to have gone overboard. Never been to both places but have friends that almost lived who said only nothing but good things. It's better to rely on people's trip reports rather than guidebooks, but I admit I use them a bit. Maybe those in the Rough Guide book were isolated cases, but then again, it's always better to be prepared for any undesirable situations. I always keep a low-key profile whenever I go to a new place.
[this is good]
Excellent post. I'm a long time resident of Japan and I go to Tokyo several times a year. I've never had any problems of any kind, but I'm also male. In general, I think the Rough Guide books are fantastic and do try to give you the worst case scenario.

They seem to be written on the theory that if you know about potential problems, you can more easily avoid them. I've followed their advice when traveling to Osaka, Barcelona, Venice, Amsterdam, and a few other places and have had nothing but safe, fun experiences.

Just be prepared, and be smart, and you'll be fine.
Hello Ms CupCate... I thought your comments were interesting because I tend to excited about visiting a new place, read what Lonely Planet says and get put off the idea.

The first thing I would say is that, having travelled quite a lot on my own all over Europe/Morocco etc and also lived for the last two years in France and Spain respectively, the Lonely Planet appears to be written by extremely paranoid people who have never set foot outside their home town before..

I'm from a very small town in the Highlands of Scotland so probably had the most sheltered upbringing you could imagine and even then I have never, never found things to be as bad as the Lonely Planet makes out..

I spent a lot of time in Paris and have found that 'male harrassment' is fairly bad in terms of people making comments at you in the street, continuing to try and chat you up long after you've made it clear it's unwelcome (sometimes even if your boyfriend is standing there too) BUT all this has happened to me in London , Glasgow and Manchester too, including the ass-groping on the metro/in the street and in Britain it's not like I stand out in the crowd as a foreigner like in Paris...

Anyway you're going to PARIS baby, get excited about it! Vive la France..
[this is good]
Tokyo treated me well. I found it best to sleep as little as possible and to do as much as I could (I went three times, each trip about 2-3 weeks). My favorite memories were of eating soup at 6am (after being out all night) with six strangers that all had different nationalities.

Make it up Fuji, if you can. The mist is amazing. Bring cash to sleep at the top and wake up above the clouds at sunrise.

People will try to get you into bars. If you don't want to, say 'gomen-e' and keep walkin' along. Forget ever using a car while you're there. Bring a nice camera. Leave your credit card at the hotel and bring if you plan on shopping - it forces you to keep a budget. If you're a foreigner who at least attempts decent Japanese, they'll like you a lot more than regular gaijin.

Don't waste your money on tourist traps. Don't ask what the food is made of. Don't plan your meals too well - allow for randomly walking into places. Lord knows there's enough restaurants there. Try to make a pen pal while you're there.

Have fun.

Steve (http://www.impulsenine.com/homepage/pages/blog.html)
*bring cash if you plan on shopping.
[this is good]
The thing that you quoted from the Parisian book...

are they really being racist, or just (just! ha!) snobby? Hmmm...

Cuppy-cate, please tell me that you couldn't raise a ruckus if some French guy pulled that shit with you... please tell me that so we can pull the plug on your blog and start feeding you soft foods. Because I don't believe for a minute that you'd let anyone get away with any kind of crap in your presence.

Anyway, when you go, have a drink and think of me. Conjure up a little Manon while you're there, please, because that's the fucking closest I'll probably ever get to being in Paris ;)
Hole-in-the-ground toilets? What is this guidebook telling you??? Tokyo has the world's highest percentage of auto-flushing, bum-drying, auto-perfuming Super Toilets per capita baby! You may find squat toilets in older stores, restaurants and train stations, but they are clean and enamelled and they flush. If you have knee problems or can't use them for some other reason just duck into most new places and be amazed at the cleanliness and toilet technology. Just don't put your face over the bowl while trying out the bidet function.

What happens in Tokyo happens in India too. That reminds me ... I need to blog about it.

France and racism: ask North and West African immigrants (and their children) about it, maybe... because there is a lot of fear and hatred toward them. (Google "Jean-Marie LePen" for more...)

but for tourists, I think it's probably "safe."
Very interesting read. Am I more informed. Well...yes and no. Nevertheless, thanks.
Oh pleaaase! Jean-Marie Le Pen is an extremist, he doesn't represent frenches vision of strangers, come on!
Of course racism is present in France, like in other countries, but it doesn't mean you'll see it when you come. Our President is a son of immigrate after all.
I hear you - but not many of us in the US know much about France, and there is very little reported in US media in the way of news from France. Probably the biggest stories in recent years have been the riots in Paris... so we're not getting a balanced view of things. My apologies if I have misrepresented your country - it was a mistake of ignorance on my part.
yeah I know that US media like to show big stories, not just frenchs one, but from all over the world. The riots were in fact in Paris suburbs. If you really want to know much about differencies between americans and frenchs, please read Ted Stanger's publications. He's american, living in France since 10 years or more. In his books, he write with a lot of humour about our clichés, each one of us. This is fun, easy to read, ant full of truth and objectivity!

(sorry if I don't write perfectly well, I don't pratice that much)

And please don't apology, I don't know much about US, just what I see in movies or in our medias...
Thanks so much for the link - I will read his books!

And there is no need to apologize - you're far better at writing in English than I will ever be at writing in French. ;-)
French is really hard to learn perfectly, there are too many words! ^^
And that's true of English, too!

I think the fact that US schools no longer teach Latin is a real barrier to people here being able to learn many European languages....

Post a comment

Already a Vox member? Sign in

CupCate

About Me

CupCate
United Kingdom
As long as I'm the shiniest star, oh there you are...
Facebook:
723628828
Flickr:
CateSevilla
LinkedIn:
catesevilla
Twitter:
CupCate

Archives