...And then the children of the village threw stones, screaming "Heretic" and "Fornicator"
For some reason, I keep meeting people that want to save me.
Not save me the last slice of pizza, or the last swig of beer...
But from the eternal flames of hell.
When I was 15 it was the two Mormon boys that took a liking to me. They were like the holier version of Matt and Ben, but sadly, less attractive.
They were actually good friends. They'd stop by and visit, we'd go to Mel's Diner and talk about the school play we were all in and eat fries with slurp chocolate milkshakes. They'd even use words like "swell" and "neat" and I'd laugh, because darn it, Mormons are fun.
Well, fun in the "I'm always laughing at you, not with you, and only came over to your house to play Bunco that one time to see if your mom really did have a framed picture of Jesus Christ over your dining room table, and spit out my coke when I saw that she totally did" kinda of way.
They pretended to accept me as a friend, despite my inevitable, eternal damnation, while I pretended not to notice their efforts to innocently manipulate my ways....
I'd find LDS handouts in my backpack, and "jokingly" laugh about the fact that I was going to hell...Shucks, we'd even playfully fight over the fact that because I'm a woman I'd never get my own cloud in heaven, or whatever, Generally, though, they were sweet kids.
Sadly, our friendship eventually fizzled out when I destroyed my body/temple with a tattoo, and they went BYU , and on to spread the gospel in Zimbabwe.
Working at Starbucks introduced me to a lot of things; Espresso, The Anal Retentive Corporate World, and copious amounts of God lovers who could see the devil in me, right through my cracked-out-caffeine smile.
First there was the Johovah's Witness who came in the store, and marched straight up to me.
Jehovah's Witness: "Honey, oh honey, I worried about you!"
Me : "Oh, no, I'm fine. Thanks. "
JW : "No, really. Sweetheart, OH how I worry!"
Me : "Thanks. Um, can I get you a coffee?"
JW: "No! THE WORLD IS ENDING. "
Me: "No, no. I think every thing's okay. "
JW: " NOOOO ! It's not! God, he told me. "
Me : "Really. Wow. Okay. Did you want a coffee?"
JW: "God told me he's worried about you. "
Me: ".....So no coffee then?"
JW: holds mobile phone up to my face "Call him. CALL GOD. He wants to talk to you, honey. "
Then I had my own, personal Stalker.
Stalker was about 55 years old, balding, and a BOY SCOUT TROOP LEADER. He's one of those scrawny old men that just look like a child molester.
He'd wear the uniform, and instead of tipping us in money, he'd leave us little jars of jam. Or say "Apple for the teacher?" and hand us fruit.
One day there was a ticket in the back room for a "Singing Songs With Jesus" concert, for me, from the Stalker. After much avoidance and hiding whenever he came in, he managed to corner me in the alley behind our store, at dusk, while I was taking out the garbage.
Stalker: "Did you get my tickets?"
Me: "What?"
Stalker: "The ticket for the concert? I can give you a ride there if you want. "
Me: "Um, no. No I'm not going. "
Stalker: "OH, but it will be so lovely. "
Somehow I managed to escape before I was stabbed/raped/re baptized, but that didn't stop him. I guess he figured that if he couldn't take me out on a date with Jesus, he'd just sit outside our store windows and stare at me while I made lattes all fucking day. Holy, no?
He also thought, for some reason, that I liked to hear him recite Psalms out loud....Yeah, no.
Last fall, I met this guy named, ironically, Ian. And he was British. Strange? Very.
Anyway, he wasn't that cute, but he was British for fuck sake, and the pickens were slim in Sacramento. So I, although being his boss, decided it would be a good idea to ask him out for coffee.
COFFEE . Because, hell, we couldn't do that at work or anything.
Well, I should have probably paid more attention to his personality virus his accent before I did that. I thought it was a good sign when he upgraded from coffee to dinner...during which, I found out some VITAL information that most people should know before asking someone out.
Me: "So, what do you do on the weekends?"
Other Ian: "Work, play football...Go to church every Sunday. "
Me: "Oh? Church?"
OI: "Yes. Now that I have Jesus in my life, it's changed everything. I used to smoke, drink, and have sex...But that's all changed since I've brought Christ into my life. "
To make a shocking, and long story very short, allow me:
Ian USED to be interesting, have a life, and SEX before he overdosed last year on who knows what. He apparently heard HEAVENLY ANGELS singing to him as he awoke from his OD, and has since been celibate, and nicotine and alcohol free.
Oh, he also believes in traditional family values, wants about 6 children, and has a bumper sticker that says, "God said it, I believe it!" on his car...
Oh, the pitfalls of Anglophilia, and MY GOD the things you can find out over a Chevy's chicken quesdilla .
As if I hadn't suffered enough disappointment and disgust that night, after I forked over the $40 for dinner, he decided to turn the tables, and ask - finally- about me.
I thought that maybe, just maybe he wanted to be friends, and genuinely cared about my life,...
OI: "So, what is your purpose in life?"
Me: "Oh! Wow. Okay, um...I just got out of a really bad relationship. I'm discovering a lot about myself, and really just learning how to be comfortable in my own skin...I'm really just trying to concentrate on getting my life to where I want it, and find happiness, ya know?"
OI: "Oh...Okay...So what do you think is important in your life?"
Me: "Well, like I said...Happiness, love...Balance. Finding out your true passions and who you really are.."
I could hear my answers and thought they were brilliant. God I was goooood . I could practically feel him giving up Jesus at this very moment JUST to be someone as fucking fantastic as I was! He looked at me, very meaningfully...This was it, maybe he really did like me!!!
OI: "When all of our numbers are up...And we stand at those pearly gates, God isn't going to ask you what you think about yourself. He's going to ask you what you think about his son, Jesus Christ. "
Me: "....Um, kay ...."
OI: "Because really..YOU don't matter in the long run. All that matters, is how we feel about Jesus. "
I burst out laughing.
Me: "Oh, god. Sorry, it just...It just really sounds like you're telling me I'm going to hell. "
OI: "It's completely up to you whether or not you go to hell. "
Needless to say, it didn't work out. British Celibate Jesus Freaks who condemn me to hell on our first date, aren't really my type...
Ah, and that brings us to Jessica.
Jessica was one of my coworkers at Starbucks . She was funny, and we seemed to get a long pretty well. It was a known fact that Jessica was as pure and chaste as The Virgin Mother herself, so I surprised that we actually got on.
We eventually would go out for coffee, or grab lunch.
I would watch my language, and she wouldn't preach. It was fabulous!
I felt really lucky to have a friend that actually really respected my values, even though ours differed so much.
It was refreshing, after all of the people I'd met in my life that just pretended to like me, so that when I least expected it, they would trick me into going to a Mormon dance, or something.
Until one day, she asked me to go to church with her. And then preceded to ask me to accompany her to church every single Sunday after that.
We met for coffee one day and I tried to explain to her my religious beliefs, so we could get over this hump in our friendship,
Me: "Jess. I love you. But I really am uncomfortable going to church with you, as I'm not really Christian. I was raised Catholic, and have chosen to since become Agnostic. I respect your religion and values and beliefs. I do. I just don't necessarily want them for myself. "
Good answer, huh?
Jess: "But why? How do you think the world came to be? Cate...Jesus loves you. He loves you more than you could ever know. He wants to be in your life. How can I make you see that?"
Me: "Jess...Jesus kinda scares me, to be honest, and I just am not comfortable with that, ok ?"
Jessica : "Scary? Nooooo . Jesus is beautiful. Really. Cate, he loves you so much. "
I tried to keep a straight face but I just kept envisioning this old, bearded Israeli man in a small sarong, reaching out his wrinkly arms saying,
“But my child! I love you! Come, come sit on my lap and confess! There's nothing to fear! I am the Lamb of God!”
We agreed to disagree and to not let our differences ruin our friendship.
I could accept her love of Christ, and therefore she should be able to respect the fact that I was a dirty heathen that enjoyed alcohol, masturbation, fornication, and the word 'Fuck', right?
I tried to ignore the fact that she gave me a copy of CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" for Christmas. I even tried even harder to ignore the email she sent me saying "she felt like she had the cure to a disease", and that she was "frustrated with me for not wanting to accept the cure"....
aka "You are willingly accepting an eternity in hell, I'm offering you a way out with Jesus, and you're being stubborn, you fool!"
Sometime mid-December , last year, I would like to say that I was drugged or kidnapped, or taken there against my will...But Jessica somehow managed to convince me to go to her, uh, special place to talk to Jesus.
This location being a segregated Christian Community, way up in the mountains, in the middle of bum-fuck-no where....
Her excuse was "It's a baby shower for my friend Mary! She soooo wants you to be there!"...
I had met Mary once, she was really nice, but the thought of being stuck up on a mountain surrounded by people who could corner me for hours at a time trying to convert me with no where to run but off a cliff...scared me. A lot.
But, I sucked up my pride, and went.
Yes, I willingly went to a Christian community on a mountain top, that had their own schools, stores, gas stations, power supplies, cafes and entertainment facilities. I was going to Jesus Town, and I would be the only ' non-believer' there . The Sinner. The Village Witch.
Upon arrival at Jesus Town, I thought I would be showered with tightly squeezed hugs, as to "Squeeze the hell outta me". I thought they would feed me home baked, "holy spirit" shaped sugar cookies or perhaps present me with a leather bound bible, embossed with my initials during that night's camp fire.
But, oh, no no no no .
I was definitely treated like a heathen. I got a few "Hi how are you? So glad you could make it to the baby shower!"s...
But from my lack of enthusiasm to talk about my personal relationship with the Lord over lunch, I'm pretty sure they could gather that I was not Christian.
Not only not Christian, but definitely not convertible.
And where does that get you in Jesus Town?
Oh, That gets you shoved at the end of a sofa for hours upon hours listening in silence while they ignore you and swap "So I was sitting on a log, talking to Jesus" stories, and being forced, IN SILENCE again (because no one cares what your pathetic, non -believing soul has to say about anything) as they watch videos of their speeches they gave in Asia to thousands of "lost Buddhist believers" about how they KNOW THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE WAY!
The baby shower itself was strange. I had never been to a baby shower at all, so going to a hardcore Christian baby shower on my first go, was probably asking for it.
The shower went a little something like this:
-Help out chopping food and fruit into 'tiny bits'
- Look at about 36 different ultrasound pictures for about 4 different babies
- Meet a woman named Rach that's "heard so much about" me and would "love to have a heart to heart" after the shower!
-Play "Guess the Mysterious Smell in The Diaper!" game
-Pray
-Roll eyes at everyone while they're praying
-Give "thanks and praise"
-Play "Baby Shower Gift Bingo"
-Roll eyes at women "darning" things "to heck" when they didn't put " footie pajamas" and "receiving blanket" on the same line
-Pray
-Eat mini foods
-Hold mini foods under tounge and pretend that I didn't start eating before everyone gathered to pray
-Give more "thanks and praise"
-Wonder if hurling my body out the bathroom window would do enough damage so that would they have to take me home
-Laugh because they would probably had their own hospital on mountain
-Pray super hard that the window was at least big enough to sneak a cigarette or 65
I was at my wits end by the time we started to pack up the car.
I had had enough of being forced into silence because I couldn't giggle about the joys of pregnancy, experiences as a child at Christian Camp, or don't listen to Christian Rock.
I had never felt more awkward, judged, or unwelcome before in my entire life. It was the first time in my life that I actually considered being burnt at the stake a real fear.
To top it all off, as we buckled our seat belts Jessica looked at me with tears in her eyes and asked me,
"Cate...Aren't you afraid of what's going to happen to you when you die?"
Also known as "You're going to burn in hell. Aren't you afraid?"
DONE.
We are no longer friends.
Look, I was raised Catholic. I've done the Sunday school thing, my first communion, and have owned more than a couple rosaries in my day.
I think Jesus was a great guy. I think that people that believe in him and have a "personal relationship with God" are great people. I do. I don't dislike or judge someone for having faith in their personal choice of religion.
Do I believe in a heaven and a hell? I'm not sure.
That's why I'm Agnostic. I believe in something, I'm just not sure what.
I don't have a problem with you if you're Christian.
But excuse me while I JUDGE THE FUCK OUT OF YOU if you're JUDGING ME for NOT believing in Jesus.
Do NOT tell me I'm going to hell.
Do NOT tell homosexuals that they're going to hell.
Do NOT EMAIL ME and tell me that I'm gay for being okay with gay people and that I'm going to hell with them. (Yes, that's happened to me before. )
I've yet to see "the sinners" of the world running around shoving mini yellow books on Darwin at children coming out of catechism.
I don't knock on people's doors saying, "Hey, if you've found God recently, maybe you should think twice!"
I don't EVER corner, email, or try to convince Christians that "Ya know that whole heaven thing? Yeah, I'm not sure it exists, and something really bad is going to happen to you if you don't STOP believing in 'The Lord', whatever the fuck that means!"
Look, I know not all Christians are like this.
I also know that the "true Christians" accept everyone, and don't really care what your religion is...
(Although if you agree to go to church with them next Sunday, they'll have met their "Save a Sinner!" quota for the year and will get that $100 gift card to The Bible House they've been praying for!...I kid, I kid!!!)
I just find it really disgusting that there are a lot of people claiming to be "Christians" out there, that are so pretentious, self righteous, and condescending that they cannot find a way to genuinely have someone in their life because they SIN! And SWEAR! And don't receive the cracker and grape juice of Christ every Sunday!!!!.
I find it really sad that people feel the need to segregate themselves in communities not associated with anyone of a separate religion. Wouldn't you be making your God even prouder by sticking by "the rules" when constantly surrounded by "sinners" and "temptation"?
Doesn't that mean more than putting yourself in a bubble where you can control everything?
I never have ended a friendship, or tried not to be friends with people who love whoever they believe to be God.
I would never condemn someone for having a religion, so why is common and "normal" for them to judge and question me for not having one?
Dude...
It's just like, just cause I'm a picker...I'm a grinner..I'm a lover...And I'm a sinner, and I play my music in the sun...Or the fact that, I'm a joker...I'm a smoker...and I'm a midnight toker ...
I sure don't want to hurt no one.
You know what I mean?
Comments
lol--i have a freind whose parents are BAC--since he was in high school I think and they have all but disowned him. He had a child out of wedlock and then ended up divorced, living in sin, you know, all the stuff regular people do. They'd help out any member of his church before him. really he has all but disowned them.
I just don't get why the people that act this way think it's their place to judge. Isn't that God's job? I mean, duh. Isn't Jesus supposed to love everyone unconditionally? so why can't they do that? Theyre the ones wearing the WWJD crap. What would Jesus do? He wouldn't be bugging the crap out of me and looking down his nose at me I bet.
I wish more Christians would engage me in religious discussion. Once they get to know me a little, they generally stay clear of the subject. I try to bring it up, but they won't touch it. So, what am I? A total lost cause? They should see me as a challenge, the under-achieving bastards.
It could also be the fact that when they tell me about their "special" relationship with Christ, I'm often inspired to tell them about my close relationship with Lord Satan. I can identify with their enthusiasm. Like their own (weaker) deity, Satan has changed my life in so many wonderful ways that I just want to tell everyone about it. Especially all the poor, deceived Christians. "But, Ben, don't you want to go to Heaven?" I don't know. Will there be beer and porn in Heaven? That's what I thought.
MERRRRY CHRISTMAAAAAAS!
I'm never going to judge you or make you feel like a "village witch." I am a Christian and I do believe in Christ, you know that, and Jesus would not want me or anyone else to treat you like you were less.
I'm really sorry that you were treated so poorly by other Christians. That is just a crime and a shame. Maybe they thought they were doing what they thought was right at the time, I don't know, but someone, a real christian would have made you feel fellowship and not exclusion by shunning you or treating like a sick animal with a disease.
I think being Christian means helping others, being a true friend, being an inspiration, having compassion and understanding for others. And a lot of other things, but for sure not being as those people were to you.
You know, I know what it's like to be under that scrutiny too. I married into a Mormon family. I was raised Methodist. I've attended church on both sides. I've never in my life encountered such scrutiny then when I go to the Mormon church and they see the crucifix I wear on my chest. They do not believe in the symbol of the crucifix. To them it is sacreligious.
They automatically zone in on my crucifix and with sorrow in their eyes, they embrace me and try to convert me, even though I already believe in Jesus. It's been so frustrating having to turn away the missionaries who knock on my door several times a month. I tell them "its not that I don't believe in God and I need to be saved. I am saved and I DO believe in Jesus.. we just don't want to be a Mormon family!" And I get the "but you do know, we are the true church?"
I don't know that and I don't believe that. Those are my beliefs. I wish they would respect that. From time to time, I still go to a Mormon service, out of respect for my mother in law who is Mormon, but each time I go I get the same looks of sorrow and I sit there, listening to their service called Sacrament Meeting where members of the church go up front and talk about how the church is the "true church." It's really frustrating for me. I just don't understand why they see me as needing to be saved when I believe in the same person as they do!
But I believe they are good people and their heart is in helping people and being good neighbors, all in all.
I do know your frustration and I understand what it's like to judged and how awful that feels.
**already hears the hellacoius uproar this is likely to start**
My issue is the whole judging when their religion tells them not to. And things about all sins being equal - but somehow theirs are okay and everyone else's are not okay.
And that death convo... man, did I ever piss someone off with that convo. He kept saying, "but don't you want to know what will happen to you when you die?" I said "No." Him, "Why not?" Me: "Why does it matter? I'll be dead then."... round and round we went. He could not conceptualize a life NOT spent in preparation for rewards upon death. I could not conceptualize a life spent NOT enjoying rewards of being alive.
Just last night dad asked me into the living room because he had something to show me. He changed the channel from his "Military Weapons Show" to "Eternal Doom: The Book of Revelations" or whatever the hell was the name of the show. He then looked at me with all seriousness and said "Ashley, you really should sit down and watch this show." I was a bit confused and said "Why? I know what the Book of Revelations is." Then dad said "Well, then you know that those that believe in God and his only son that are Christians are going to heaven when the rapture comes. Those that are non-believers are going to hell." From me "Again, what is your point?" Dad "In our family looks like one of us won't be making it to heaven..." I was floored!
I stopped going to church when I turned 21. I couldn't stand to be around "Saturday Night Sinners" (including my parents) who felt like God was going to give them the keys to heaven because they went to church for an hour on Sunday. But my worst offense was not joining "the Church" when I was 14. The way my parents talked Satan himself was going to personally rip the soul from my body at any moment.
2nd note: This is also why I joined the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I was touched by his noodly appendage and am a proud Pastafarian. In the Church of the FSM, if we're intent on converting someone to spend their life planning for an after-life in our heaven of beer volcanos and a stripper factory, we at least have the decency to dress in full pirate regalia!
Ramen!
That's disgusting he would treat you, his own daughter, like that.
indeed, cate. indeed. that's about all i can say.
ok, one more thing--i have an aunt who is BAC. she's rather subtle about it sometimes, but she definitely gets her witness on around me and my brothers.
and my mother the catholic doesn't understand that I DON'T WANT TO GO to christmas mass next monday, and in fact AM NOT going, despite the fact that i live under her roof at the moment. me = grownup. me = old enough to choose my own religious leanings. v. frustrating.
i'm rather intrigued by this Lord Satan Ben mentions above me here. Ben, can you tell me more?
So been there...and came to the conclusion that the least 'Christian' people are those that are Christian...
I love thy neighbour CupCate! ;Þ
Oh, I certainly can.
(Insert maniacal laughter.)
Satan loves everyone. He doesn't judge anyone, and he always has candy. The only downside is that he tends to make everything smell like goat. And he says "seriously" a lot.
Religions ARE about judging. You are supposed to judge the acts of others according to whether or not they are in line with your religion, and act (or even punish) accordingly. How can a person say they're not judging if they believe people who don't conform to certain of their religious beliefs will go to hell, or earn disapproval by an often rathful and vengeful God (see: the Bible)? That seems like a huge contradiction.
Judgement is the reason why Christian and Muslim proselytizing exists- because these people judge other people's religions and cultures (some of them thousands of years old) to be so backwards and inferior, that they must "save" them from their evil pagan ways. Sure, the thought is nice in theory (save people from burning in hell- though nobody's ever actually come back and confirmed hell's existence, anyway), but it is awfully presumptuous and judgemental to feel that your way is the only way to eternal peace. Plus, it is gross when people try to convert others because they want to earn points towards heaven.
All the love-y Jesus stuff may give people a nice fuzzy feeling in their tummies, but it doesn't disguise the fact that religion IS about enlarging the flock and keeping them in check. Religious people (those whose lives are shaped by their religion) have to judge people and believe that other religions are inferior, because if they didn't, their whole school of thought and way of living would mean very little.
My brother's mother-in-law is like that. She's a born again Christian and a judgemental hypocrite. She doesn't like my brother because he's not "saved" and she acts like she's better than everyone. She's also a hypocrite in the sense that she doesn't give out candy at Halloween cause she believes it's "heathen holiday", yet she had no problem taking her grandson out to the other houses and getting candy for him. I can't stand people like that. In my opinion the people who consider themselves Christians yet treat people that way...judging them and in some cases, hating them...they're the ones who should be worried about going to hell. I believe in God, but I don't judge others for not believing. I believe that if God is anything like he's been described then he accepts everyone exactly the way they are...as long as a person does their best in life and tries to be a good person to others...that's all that matters. I smoke, I drink...I've had sex...and yet I have manners and am polite to others and try and treat others kindly...I like to think that the way I treat other people would be more important when deciding my fate than whether or not I smoke or have sex. But anyway, my point is people like the ones you mentioned above are anything but Christian and are total hypocrites.
P.S. Sorry this is so long...I tend to ramble...
I have a co-worker who is very Christian and loves to talk about it. We had a discussion about homosexuality, and he was telling me about how he has gay friends. Before we even really got into the conversation, I mentioned that this is a hot-button issue for me, and that if he is homophobic he should keep it to himself because I'm very pro-gay rights. (I did put it much more eloquently and gentle than that.) Well, he said, "It's OK, I'm friends with gay people." Then he turned around and said that he preaches Christianity to them because he loves them, and he wants them to see that they are living a sinful lifestyle. BUT they can change. I seriously felt the heat rising into my face and excused myself to go to the little girls' room. I just think about my best friends that are gay, and these people who want to change them are missing out on some great friends.
Living smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt, this is nothing new to me. I've received every flyer and tract that's been made about why I'm going to Hell. There was one left in our lunch room at work that said, "It doesn't matter if you're a nice person. If you don't accept Jesus Christ into your life, then you are going to Hell." Oh, that's great! So I can be the biggest bitch in the world, but I'm cool if I accept Jesus? Hmmm... Not the right religion for me, that's for sure.
Great post!
Fantastic - very eloquent and funny, as usual!
When I went to Uni, I was really shocked at how many Christians there were - where I grew up, no-one was religious and my high school was completely secular. I lived with a BAC in halls, and she was (and still is) a wonderful, caring person who completely redefined, in my mind, what a Christian should be. For about three months, she'd casually suggest if I'd like to go Church with her, but I very firmly said No. I've never really believed in God, and I think that if I ever do turn to a belief system, which will probably be when I'm A LOT older, then my heart and head say 'Buddhism'. But I'm too young, self obsessed and needy to go for all that now, lol.
I always feel a bit strange at this time of the year, because of the whole CHRIST-mas thing as I'm a very firm believer in Christmas even though I'm secular. This uneasiness was typified a couiple of years ago when my friend (also non-religious) asked me to go to a Carol Concert. After PROMISING me that there would'n't be religious readings/preaching-to-the-ungrateful-heathens-who just-go-to-church-"because-it's-Christmas-innit?", I went and very hungover I was too. So the look on my face as I saw a CHURCH - and not only that but a CATHOLIC church - must have been the very definition of "unpleasantly surprised". However, there was a gospel choir and very little preaching so I actually enjoyed it. However, a heathen in God's house didn't get away scot-free, oh no: this was a 'candlelight' concert, hence holding a lit candle with only a bit of cardboard to protect you from the dripping wax. Well, protect in theory - mine was loose so every few seconds, a nice dollop of hot wax would hit my poor hand. And because it a) hurt and b) took me by a surprise, my usual response to both a) and b) is to yell "JESUS!"
So, as you can imagine, that went down well...
No Heaping of Venom on your head, CupCate. Great post. I totally agree with you.
I am (was? Can you give up your religion? You sure can't give up your football team!). OK - I was raised in the Catholic faith, but could never accept some of the things I was taught.
Original Sin - WTF! I think teaching half the population of a church that the sins of the world are their fault has to be pretty fucking counter-productive to keeping them "in the faith" - but that doesn't seem to be the case.
And Go forth and multiply and Man shall have dominion over all the things of land and sea - no fucking wonder the planet is going to hell, taking us all, Christians and Non-Christians alike, with it.
Deal with that, then deal with the rather dubious concept of Heaven and Hell, that's what I think.
But I do feel we have a soul. Just not necessarily a God who gives a shit.
oh yeah! Thankfully I have never been really hit on by the BAC-types, but am in the UK so... *shrug*
Totally deserves to be highlighted!
And yes - I see why they do it, in an intellectual 'how very interesting' sort of way as a cannibal gives recepies, but not in an emotional manner - I cannot believe that it is correct..
Praise the Lord.
Praaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise Him!
This is another good reason I love being Jewish!
It's always fun when someone approaches me, trying to "save me" from damnation and hoping that I'll convert ... I'm an especially complicated case when they find out I'm a JEW -- makes me laugh out loud to see their shock and the ultimate conviction to convert me ... like they'll get extra special points for converting a Jew. ESPs!
Have you seen the Christian vs Christ-follower commercials?? http://www.thinkchristian.net/?p=960 They're a parody of the Mac vs PC commercials, and they're HILARIOUS.
Great post!
Oh Lordy.
I was really expecting to get shat upon ,lol. I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see the irony, humor, and hypocrosy (sp) in all of this...
Kat, Iain, Marque, Cate & Abigail-
Thank you :) Thank you guys for always reading, I really appreciate it. I'm glad y'all enjoyed the post and took the time to comment...I know how busy things have been lately...I blame Jesus, really.
Ruthypants-
Please tell me you've seen the south park where they talk about Mormons!? It's HILARIOUS. They sing the story of the Mormon religion, and after every fact they sing "Dumb dumb dumb dumb DUMB!"...Anway, what I think is interesting is that my grandparents are tried and true Catholics. They go to Church every Sunday, take part in their community, my grandfather reads at the services, and my grandma is an usher...However. They have Scotch at 4 on the dot EVERY DAY, curse, and when I got a tattoo my 75 year old grandma said, "That's lovely. It looks really nice on you." To me, THAT is a person of God. Forgiving, Accepting, and above all else: Loving.
Ben Martini-
I think Christians don't want to talk to you because they're afraid you'll burst into flames, or want to show them pictures of the gold fish sacrifice we did last weekend at the "Sinning for Lucifer" convention. (The video turned out really well by the way.)
Merry Christmas to you too! God bless us, everyone!
Kristen-
Oh the Mormons. Alas, I don't know what to do about them. I think next time you to go to church at a Mormon church you should wear a cross and carry a pitchfork. I wonder what they would do? Thank you for all your support and understanding :)
Leeeeenda-
Dude. I know. I believe in ghosts. I believe there is something after we die. But am I going to fear hell because it may exist? Eh, no. No I'm not. Anyway, hell sounds like more fun. It'll be warm, we'll probably get a tan, and we can fornicate all we want! Woooo! Oh,and I'm all about the flying spaghetti monster. Let's worship together!
Paperheart-
After your dad said that did you hiss? You should have hissed and started writing all over the floor. Or maybe you should have made your head spin around. I do that now, it get's them everytime. Us heathens are really funny, once you get past the horns. I'm sorry your Dad is like that. If it's not religion, it's always something else.
Aurielis-
May peace be with you, neighbor. (This is the awkward part where we have to shake hands and hug and say 'Peace be with you').
Liz-
Don't go. Tell your mom if you do go, you will hiss and drool and fornicate in the aisles. It's better for her if you don't go, really. Did you want to come to the "Sinning for Lucifer" confrence next month? I'm sure Ben will be there. Lord Satan usually just sends Ben to do his meet and greets, book signings, and crab feeds for him. I'll send you the details.
I really don't believe this just happened.
But I responded to EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR COMMENTS.
And then it freaked out.
And ERASED THEM.....
ERASED THEM...
Until I stop losing my mind and regain control and sanity...
Please Enjoy this...
FUCK CHRISTMAS.
Basically. I'm really frustrated. Who would like to buy me a new laptop? WHO? ANYONE???!?!!?
GAARRRAGGHAHHAAaHAHHAH.
Anway. Let's try this again.
Lord Ben Martini-
Ya know, he does say "seriously" a lot. The goat smell though, I dunno, it always seemed more like damp alpaca, to me. Have you ever noticed how his hooves tend to scratch linolim? I've asked him time and time again to wear the slip covers when he comes over, but NOooooOOoooOO. So stubborn
Cutiebug-
So very well written. Very intellectual, very much spot on. Oh how I bow down to your extreme articulation talents. I usually have to ramble on for about 23 pages that all include 'fuck' before I can get my point across...
LP & Pookie-
LP, I wish that everyone that's "religious" would just spend more time worrying about how they treat other people and try to better the world as it is, verus destroying the one we have and worrying about what MIGHT happen when they die. Pookie (schnookums, sugar plum) I'm going to Google your religion because it sounds very interesting! See? The world would be so much better if we all took an interest in eachother's beliefs, no? We would even, gasp!, understand eachother better!!!
Red Pen-
Well, I imagine their answer to that would be, "Well, the Catholics? They've got it all wrong! Wrong! The Jews? So WRONG! Don't worry, though. We're the truth! There will plenty of room for US in heaven, while those other WRONG religions will burn! Aahaahahah! SUCKERS!"
Bookishly Fab-
Yay for bitches who believe in Jesus going to heaven! That makes so much sense, doesn't it? And explains so much...Well, I guess I'll see you in hell with all of the other bitches who don't believe in Jesus....
Emm & Patty-
Thank you both so very, very much. Patty, we're FRIENDS now! Wooohoo! Can I borrow some money? ;)
Polka Dot-
It's so nice when you meet someone that respects your own views, and resists trying to kidnap you to Jesus Town, isn't it? Yeah, cursing in Church doesn't go over to well, Been there, done that ;) lol
Gamba-
What's weird is that ever since I've moved to the UK I don't get that "you must love jesus" bullshit. It's really nice...But it's maybe it's because I spend most of my time in pubs...
Rebecca-
After reading 'The Chosen' I was always really interested in Judaism. It was interesting to find out you guys don't believe in the afterlife...Or am I wrong? I think I read that somewhere...Hmmm..Anway, thanks for the link! Will have to watch those!!! Happy Hanukkah!
Huevon & Blue Cat-
Thank you! And yes ppPPppprppRRRRRrrrrRRrrrAaaaAAAAaaAAAAaaaAIIIIIIiiiiiIIiiiIIiiiiSSSSsssssssSsssEEeeeEE
HiiiiiIIiiiIIIiiiIIIIIiimmmmmMmmmMmmmmmMMMMm!!!
Haha, your grandparents remind me of Kathy Griffin's parents.
I was also raised Catholic. I have a great aunt who was a nun. She went into the convent at 15 years old. 15! no shit! anyway. She got a bit morbid when she got older, taking pictures at viewings and all I mean...taking pictures of the body at viewings...yeesh "Oh, there's Aunt Anita & Uncle John, there's us with mom, there's ....Nana...in the casket....!" but ANYway... she was cool. My dad was not raised Catholic and he never went to church except if it was for our 1st communion etc. and my great aunt the nun loved him just the same as anyone else. So did everyone. But when she would come visit she was never ever anyone you felt was gonna start pushing religion on you or acting like you are doing anything 'wrong'. If it wasn't for the habit you just would have thought she was just another great aunt.
The funniest thing about this is that the Bible which is supposedly what Christians base their faith on never makes mention of "the rapture" it's something that people made up.
I love that making up the rapture is okay, yet whenever you get into a discussion with some hardcore religious person it's always going back to "well the Bible says..." Religious people as a whole are tremendously hypocritical; those such as Kristen excluded. I think it's sad because honestly they Bible does set a good example for how to live a loving and happy life, but few people actually read it or listen to what it says.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"- Ghandi
The funniest thing about this is that the Bible which is supposedly what Christians base their faith on never makes mention of "the rapture" it's something that people made up.
I love that making up the rapture is okay, yet whenever you get into a discussion with some hardcore religious person it's always going back to "well the Bible says..." Religious people as a whole are tremendously hypocritical; those such as Kristen excluded. I think it's sad because honestly they Bible does set a good example for how to live a loving and happy life, but few people actually read it or listen to what it says.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"- Ghandi
I'm on board with the heaven/hell, if they exist, are right here.
I also don't understand the belief in an omnipotent being that requires devotion, NOT partaking of pleasures it is supposed to have created, and is judgemental.
My personal feeling is that an omnipoteng being would be evolved beyond those forms of vanity and game playing.
....Damn....
Er....Will anyone buy me a bible for Christmas? Anyone?
Ruthypants-
Don't you love how I still call you that? Doesn't it just warm you? Bless, we have something special here, Ruthy. We, do. Ah, to think in many, many years we'll be able to sit back and reflect on all the good times we had on Vox, whilst we're knitting in Hell with our Chihuahuas playfull humping Lord Satan's hooves. Maybe then you can show me how to make my hair shiny and bouncy like yours....Sorry, just a fantasy of mine. Anyhoo, yeah I've never actually had a problem with Catholic people, strangly. Anyway, I hope you have a marvelous birth of Christ celebration on Monday...And I hope you get as drunk as I will :) Snorgle Lord Elvis for me! x
Caaate-
aka Alternate Self. I actually no JACK SHIT about the bible. I had to read some of Genesis for school as part of our "world religions" class once, but other than, not so much. People that quote it, and use it as a "source" to condemn others, especially gay people, make me vomit. I just find it hilarious how people live their life around a book. Sure, I grew up basing my beliefs and opinions and teachings of "The Babysitter's Club" but that's just me, ya know? Praise Maryanne and Logan! Love the quote from Ghandi :)
Redzilla-
That's probably the best analogy I've ever heard of. "What??? You DONT SEE HIM?? What's wrong with you? JUST BELIEVE. He seeeees you! Why can't you just love him back??" that's exactly what it's like. Brilliant!!
Dee-
I apologize for stealing your 'ending of sentences' abilities, lol. Thank you :)
Leenda-
Will check out Crixpy's post :) My sound on my laptop decided to stop working for a while, so I'll have to go back and check it out. :) Btw, I am going to respond to your email this century, lol.
Kate-
Yeah, those are pretty good reasons. More so, other than all of the suffering, is just the lack of proof. I'm sorry, I've gotten more proof watching "Most Haunted" about the afterlife than I have from going to church for 14 years of my life. Nevermind all that SCIENCE bullshit, ya know? I have found more faith and more understanding speaking to one of my friends that is heavily into meditation and actually considers herself a 'monk'. I believe in the Universe. I don't even know if that makes sense...But it's just, we know BARELY ANYTHING in regards to space, and time, and the Universe in general..So how can we really expect to be so correct about religion? We're a tiny spec compared to everything else out there that we haven't found yet. I think we get so caught up in OUR world, that we forget that ther are QUADROOOPLYMILLIONS of other things going on out there that we don't even know about...Which is why the meaning of life is CLEARLY 42.
Zack-
Amen. I have a hard time even arguing with them, because arguments like "I believe" and "Because it said so in the Bible" and "because Jesus wishes it to be so" just make me laugh, and laugh, and laugh.
...if you haven't read the letter, "Why can't I own a Canadian?", you should, it's pretty funny.
Not so fast Atheists - You guys are just as guilty. You take things too far. I know that you get irritated by assholes trying to convert you but forcing people to take down Christmas trees in public places is retarded. Christmas has become a celebration of American Consumerism not Christianity. Hell, the tree isn't even a symbol of Christianity. Also, Atheists seem to have a particular disdain for Christianity - more than any other religion. You don't just shun Christianity, you attack it - these attacks cause reprisal and then you attack back then get another reprisal and it becomes a neverending cycle. And assholes that don't look at "Merry Christmas" as a cheerful greeting and get all pissy about it prove my point on this.
So, I guess what I am saying is that everyone should chill out. I don't like people trying to "save" me but I just thank them for caring and move on. If they are persistent, I am polite, I turn down their offer and I distance myself. And for the love of Pete(my personal deity=)) If someone offers you a holiday greeting of any kind, take it as a gesture of good will and move on. I have been invited to Eid(The festival of sorts at the end of Ramadan) and graciously gone. It was really very cool. I am firm in what I believe and am not going to be swayed by any religion but that doesn't mean that I can't learn from the different cultures and find the beauty in them.
I think that if we spent more time trying to be polite and trying to understand each other instead of fueling the fire by acting like asses to each other, there might be more understanding and less irritation. Yes, other's will still continue to be asses and we cannot control that but we can control ourselves and our responses and make them mild, polite and reasonable.
Now, someone hold my fucking hand and sing Kumbaya or I will shoot you in the face!! =)
The people who you described have no idea what Christianity is...I am annoyed by the "praise and singing" Jesus Freaks as well. As a Christian, we are suppose to engage the modern culture and the people who shape it regardless of religious profession. You can't live a full life by removing yourself from the realities of it such as creating a "Jesus Town." They try to "tidy up reality."
Don't get me wrong, I do believe in God and that the Catholic Church is beautiful, but what these people who encountered you shared, is not Christ. If anything, it is people like them who have done the most harm to Christianity...not the non-believers.
Again, thanks for the post...awesome.
Liz-
Lord Satan would definitely help you with the whole "hostile world takeover" thing. In fact, I'll text him and see what he's doing next week. He may have a "Hell In A Hand Basket" pot luck to go to, but I'm sure we'll work something out....
An (not the article)-
Thank you!!! See, I love that your Catholic and can still see the humor/insanity that a lot of Christians produce. Fabulous. I'm glad you enjoyed the post, as I enjoy hearing from regligious folks that don't make me want to stab out my ears. Yay for respect!
Potty Mouth-
Loved your comment. I totally agree with you. It's not like if someone mentions Jesus to me I freak out and scream "GOD DAMN IT!!! HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!!". Random people I can deal with and laugh it off. But it's just when it's friends that do it, and people I thought respected me tell me I'm going to hell, wel, you get the jist. Anyway. That guy in your post that screamed at the friendly barista is a dick. I don't get mad when people say "Merry Christmas" even though I'm not Christian. They're just trying to be nice...
Redzilla-
And KFed really will get custody of his kids because US Weekly is the truth, because, hello! It's the a MAGAZINE. It's in print. They wouldn't just PRINT LIES would they? Duh.
Kate-
I can't stop laughing about the Fossils, thing. "God put those there to test us"...And Darwin was a decoy. God, you sure are tricky, you kidder, you.
Dee-
Holy Shit. I died laughing. Absolutely love that. Thanks for the link. I must spread the joy to all my friends and family...NOW.
Zack & Megan-
Thank you both!!
I am someone with lots of doubts w/ respect to religion and I have done some search myself. Have you looked at the Beyond Belief conference website? It's a great start I think for those of us who has questions about these very important issues. The point is that it is very easy for a religious person to argue: it's all about faith, there is no need to have any proof or evidence or rationale. In contrast, science is subject to a much more serious criticism, to scrutinity or peers, to trial and error. And science is humble and recognises the unknown. Many of the speeches of the Beyond Belief 2006 conference website are available at youtube and I am selecting the best for my blog.
I wrote a post recently (unfortunately I have not translated this specific post yet) about a discussion about religion I had recently. One thing that really made me mad was how superior religious people think they are - because they "know" everything. The dogmas of religion and faith give them take away all uncertainties, while people without faith feel much more humble wrt these issues as they recognise that there is a lot that we don't know yet and perhaps will never know.
I believe these questions you have are very important ones. I, humbly, would suggest anyone who is interested in these issues to keep looking for answers - there is so much out there. Agnosticism is just one possibility - don't stop there. Explore other possibilities.
Thank you so much for reading :) I have added you to my 'hood as well! Looking forward to the translation of your post on religion! Will check out the Beyond Belief information... Thanks for the suggestions, and I very much agree with continuing to ask questions...Always changing, always moving, and always questions...I hope you have a pleasant weekend!
Have you been zoning in on my brainwaves? I feel the same way about religion, about people who push to hard and disrespect those who aren't exactly like them!
As my friend Jordan likes to say "Jesus doesn't really love you, he's just saying that to get in your pants!"